Chaucer webchat: expert Dr Marion Turner on his feminism, love for slapstick and more

No matter if you missed this month’s Reading group pilgrimage to read The Canterbury Tales – Dr Turner joined us to share her expertise on everyone’s favourite poet of the Middle Ages
  
  

Canterbury Pilgrims from John of Lydgate (1370-1451?) Story of Thebes written c1420 and designed as an addition to Chaucer’sD969F1 Canterbury Pilgrims from John of Lydgate (1370-1451?) Story of Thebes written c1420 and designed as an addition to Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales
Canterbury pilgrims as depicted circa 1420. Photograph: Alamy

And we're done!

Only officially, however - Dr Turner is going to come back later to answer more questions in the comments, so we’ll keep them open all afternoon.

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

My hour is up! Thanks so much to everyone for all the fantastic questions. I will come back later and try to answer some more. I hope you've all enjoyed it...Thanks to Sam for making this the book club choice, Chaucer would have been delighted.

ChronicExpat says:

Dr Turner, can you share with us a few of your thoughts on the Parson’s Tale? Do you think Chaucer intended it as an integral, essential part of the work, or was it ‘tacked on’ later? Many readers find it less generally enjoyable than the other tales and often skip it, but do we miss out on an essential element of Chaucer and his milieu if we do so?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I don’t think it was tacked on - I think it is an important part of the Canterbury Tales, but unlike some critics I don’t think it is MORE important than the others. Some critics - particularly at a slightly earlier date - felt that the Parson’s Tale had a seriousness that gave it authority. I think it reflects the Parson’s view of the world - and that that view is partial (in both senses) - just like the other pilgrims’ perspectives. Indeed, Chaucer uses the first person more than the sources of the tale do, as if to emphasise that it is a personal view of the world.

allworthy says:

What do surviving copies of the Canterbury Tales tell us about readership, use and popularity: Illuminated Ellesmere versus printed copies? Thanks so much.

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

The earliest copies date from around the time of Chaucer’s death (early fifteenth century - he died in 1400). The first time the Tales is mentioned in a will, the testator is a merchant and inn/brothel owner! We have other evidence of readership from, e.g., the Tales being referenced by others, and in the first decades of the fifteenth century poets such as Hoccleve and Lydgate talk about Chaucer and emphasise the idea of him as an authoritative figure. The Tales are popular throughout the 15th C, but readership expands hugely after Caxton prints the Tales - one of the earliest books that he prints. And there are many many editions thereafter.

'Chaucer is making a specific choice to write about English pilgrimage – on a route that he knew well'

Ongley has another question:

Considering The Canterbury Tales was picked by the RG as a “holiday read”, wouldn’t it have made more sense if Chaucer had elected to send his pilgrims down the Via Francigena, especially given that its starting point is thought to have been Canterbury? It would’ve made for more variety in terms of scenery.

Sorry if I am being facetious, I was just wondering whether there was some kind of pecking order when it came to pilgrim routes.

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

There is a pecking order - the Holy Land is definitely at the top of it. Chaucer is making a specific choice to write about English pilgrimage, on a route that he knew well (because it was the way to the continent). He’s taking the temperature of this country, as we see in the magisterial opening sentence, where he narrows down from the seasons, nature, animals, humans, the English (from every shires end), down to the individual body of Thomas a Beckett in Canterbury. He roots us in time and place. The Englishness that he depicts is international - he refers to places all over the world and uses texts from many different languages, but he is nonetheless interested in thinking about the local.

deadgod says:

I wonder at the mix of high and low in Chaucer (the Knight and the Miller, for the most famous example). Specifically, does the reception of, for example, The Tales seem to have been unforced, or were they a challenge to the expectations (in the sense of decorum) of whomever their first audiences were?

Perhaps this question would have to do with whether Chaucer wrote poetry as a way of talking about the real world, or as a way of escaping from it into a nascent medievalism.

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

You hit the nail on the head with your focus on the mix of high and low - Chaucer is the absolute master of juxtaposition, of putting next to each other clashing styles, attitudes to life, kinds of people, and seeing what happens. His audiences seem to have been thrilled by what he did - perhaps because people can take what they want to out of the Canterbury Tales. In the fifteenth century, after Chaucer’s death, the more ‘serious’ tales (Melibee, Second Nun, Clerk) were the most popular, and most commonly copied. In the 20th century, people liked the Miller, Merchant, and Wife of Bath. So sometimes people ignore the mixing that is so integral to the text! I don’t think Chaucer was trying precisely to talk about the real world - he is often writing about literature itself, about genre, about the standards of a fabliaux or romance world. At the same time, he can delineate a scene with an extraordinary immediacy - the way he can describe a room or a conversation is sometimes novelistic. That kind of social realism is different, though, from a journalistic kind of realism - Chaucer never wants to talk directly about contemporary events.

crich1951 says:

Did the high and low born really travelled together on a Pilgrimage? If so, could they converse with each other?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

The Tabard group is an exaggerated group, but based on a certain amount of reality. Inns were places of social mixing and so, to a certain extent, were pilgrimages, where relative strangers might get to know each other. (Margery Kempe, in the early fifteenth-century, writes about her own experiences being ostracised by groups of pilgrims because of, e.g. her excessive religiosity and her eating habits). But a knight would be very unlikely actually to be riding along and exchanging stories with a ploughman, for instance - there is definitely poetic licence here.

petaljam says:

I’m actually reading the Life of Genghis Khan by Jack Weatheford at the moment (not Chaucer, sorry!) but he does begin with a quote from The Squire’s Tale, about Genghis Khan:

“This noble King was called Genghis Khan,
Who in his time was of so great renown
That there was nowhere in no region
So excellent a Lord in all things.”

Weatherford’s claim is that Genghis Khan was much admired during and after his empire building, and that the undeserved spin came much later.

While that is plausible, I do wonder if The Squire’s Tale is a good example of more reliable accounts than some of the later accounts of his reign. It wasn’t really meant to be taken seriously, was it? Or was that positive view of Genghis Khan, as Weatherford claims, a “standard” description of the emperor by 14th C Europeans, and was just setting the scene for the rest of the story?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I’d agree that Chaucer is not trying to paint a realistic picture of Genghis Khan’s court. He makes it very like a European court, even mentioning Gawain, Arthurian narrative etc. At the same time, it is ‘exotic’ with the magical gifts. But it is also true that Genghis Khan wasn’t the kind of ‘horror’ figure that he is today, so it wasn’t strange for Chaucer - via the admittedly idealistic Squire - to describe the court in chivalric terms.

doncipote says:

Do you think some of the bawdy setpieces in the tales ( red hot pokers up the derriere , farts in the face etc ) are derived from theatrical live performance in the ´´ low ´´ sections of the Mystery Plays and Pageants Chaucer would undoubtably have seen at the time?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Interesting! You are right that Chaucer saw contemporary plays - even refers to them in the Miller’s Tale. I think there are definite connections between the visual aspect of the plays (and royal entry processions etc) and the more slapstick comedy elements of the ‘fabliaux’ tales. But there are also long traditions in other fabliaux and folk tales of similar bawdy motifs - the idea of the ‘misdirected kiss’ in the Miller’s Tale (when Absolon kisses the, er, nether hole rather than the face) isn’t made up by Chaucer, but appears in other sources too.

Updated

jkjk asks:

What do you think is the ‘final message’ of the Merchant’s Tale regarding marriage?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Well, the Merchant's message is bleak and misogynist. I don't think that's the message of the Tale though. If you look at the tale in context - Fragment IV, two tales set in Lombardy, home of tyranny - I think this is a tale 'about' oppression.

Updated

LAPD says:

To what extent do Chaucer and Dafydd ap Gwilym, another great medieval poet, share the same influences?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Interesting! I’m definitely not an expert on Dafydd ap Gwilym. But I’d say that their influences are not all that similar. I think they shared a certain amount of common heritage in the great Latin and French traditions, though the forms in which Dafydd ap Gwilym knew these texts is not clear. But Chaucer was engaging with many texts written a bit too late for Dafydd to know (some Machaut texts for instance), and most importantly with many many texts written in Italian (esp by Boccaccio), which no one else in these islands seems to have known in the 14th c.

deadgod says:

One thing that surprises me about Chaucer is how busy he was in addition to writing copiously (and of course so well, but that’s a different kind of mystery). As you put together your biography of him, how do you figure he actually wrote non-official, non-commercial stuff (like poetry)? Standing by candlelight at a desk at night? On days when he didn’t do ‘real’ work?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

In one of his poems, the House of Fame (my favourite of all poems), the narrator, ‘Geffrey’ is described as going home after a day of accounting to his rooms and sitting, dazed, at another book. His guide figure tells him he should go to the doorway and listen to his neighbours’ stories. I think we can imagine him going home to his rooms above Aldgate after his day job, and writing, perhaps on a wax tablet. He may have sometimes dictated to a scribe, or taken his rough drafts to his scribe to write up neatly. Later, for much of the 1390s, he did not have so much of a regular day job, and probably devoted himself to his writing full-time, at least some of the time. And that is when most of the Tales were written - though when he was in London he wrote a huge amount of other texts. And his extensive use of sources means that he must have had many books nearby to consult.

'People have overstated what Chaucer did to the English language'

siancain asks:

My question is quite general: how would you measure Chaucer’s influence on the English we use today?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

He borrowed and coined a lot of words (though probably fewer than the OED claims, as well-known writers tend to get over-represented). But no one individual can change the course of a language - Chris Cannon’s book The Making of Chaucer’s English shows that people have overstated what Chaucer did to the language. I think he had a greater influence on poetic form - he invented the pentameter, for instance!

'I think a lot of people are daunted by the original and then pleasantly surprised how they get into it'

imperious asks:

Is there a modern English audio version of the Canterbury Tales that you would recommend and is it possible to get as much out of a modern English version as it is out of the original?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I don’t know much about audio versions I’m afraid. I’d have to say that you can’t get as much out of a modern version out of the original - because a major part of Chaucer’s genius does lie in his language, his use of poetic form, his imagery, his word play etc. I think a lot of people are daunted by the original and then pleasantly surprised how they get into it. BUT, I also think you can get a lot out of a translation, and it is much better to read that than nothing. Or, read a tale in the original, and then read some modern adaptations / inspirations - such as Patience Agbabi’s Telling Tales or the amazing Refugee Tales project.

(You can hear more about the Refugee Tales project on this Guardian books podcast episode:)

samjordison has a follow-up question about one of Dr Turner’s previous answers:

Is there a reason Chaucer doesn’t name Boccacio?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

It is odd isn't it - his main source! He does mention other recent Italian poets such as Dante and Petrarch too. Authors often don't name sources at this time (and that isn't seen as plagiarism!), and it is also the case that Boccaccio would not have been a big name to his audience. He also, in Troilus and Criseyde, makes a joke by pretending he has a Latin source, Lollius, on whom he slavishly relies, while never mentioning Boccaccio, the main source. I think it is all part of his playing with ideas of authority - I don't think he is hiding his source or anything like that. There are a lot of in--jokes that his coterie readers would get and that we might miss.

allworthy also asks if Chaucer performed the tales and to whom?:

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

In answer to your first question - there isn't firm evidence about performance. He probably did read them out, though, to the kind of friends that I mention in the previous answer, but also perhaps to bigger groups. There are illustrations of him performing in a court setting - but these are later (after his death) and aren't reliable reflections of how he actually shared his work.

allworthy says:

Who did he think he was writing for?

And a second question if you have time to answer: What can we tell of Chaucer’s intentions from the sequence of the stories and particularly with the stories he added in that he had already written. At what point, does he go ‘this is a good idea because ...’

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

He mainly thought he was writing for his literary friends, and friends of friends - courtiers, merchants, scribes, poet-lawyers, bureaucrats…but he did also think about posterity. And as time went on, I think he expanded his sense of audience. The sequence is tricky - we know that each fragment fits together (Knight is followed by Miller is followed by Reeve is followed by Cook) but different scribes and editors have had different ideas about how the different fragments fit together. Chaucer probably did not have a fixed sense of this. But within each fragment, the sequencing can be really telling - the story of Palamon and Arcite on its own is quite different from the Knight’s Tale in the Tales context, parodied and exposed immediately by the Miller. And the idea that no perspective on its own is enough, that you should read multiple versions and viewpoints, think about tales through the lens of other tales, is absolutely fundamental to Chaucer’s idea of how literature functions.

Swelter says:

I am curious about the two tales written in prose. Is there a known reason that these were written in prose instead of verse?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

So glad to get a question about the prose! The sources of these texts are in prose. Of course Chaucer would be perfectly capable of turning prose into verse (and did elsewhere). But the Parson specifically tells us that he looks down on more literary forms, and a plainer prose seems to suit him. With Melibee, Chaucer is playing with us: his own persona can’t write poetry. He tells two stories, one in a doggerel form that the Host says ‘is not worth a turd’ and one in prose. The joke is that Chaucer himself has written all the extraordinary poetry in the mouths of the other characters.

LordHoot asks:

How likely is it that Chaucer simply compiled and rewrote existing stories, in the mode of the 1001 Nights? Or are they all largely his own creative work?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Most of the tales do indeed have known sources - sometimes they are a mix, taking bits of many different sources. The idea of ‘originality’ wasn’t privileged in the Middle Ages in the way that it is today. Medieval writers understood that translation, for instance, can be extremely creative. So when Chaucer takes the plot of a tale from somewhere else, he makes it his own, and his use of language tends to make it a more profound and clever version.

'Chaucer was so newfangled that he coined the word newfangled'

Toiletcleaner says:

How much do you think Chaucer influenced the standardisation of spoken London English at that time, with his spellings and his first (known) use of various words?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

You are right to say first (known) use as he may not have coined all the words that we think he coined. One of my favourite examples of his coining though, is that he was so newfangled that he coined the word newfangled…But he wasn’t being read widely enough for it to be possible for his texts to influence how people were speaking at the time, although he did influence how his successors were writing. In general I’d say he was part of a growing use of the vernacular, rather than an engine of change himself. As English was used more and more in bureaucratic documents and then when printing began in England 75 years after Chaucer’s death, London English developed into the ‘standard’ form. Chaucer benefited from that - Caxton printed texts written in the London / East Midland form.

'I think Chaucer would have found it very odd indeed that his texts are mainly read now in schools'

Captain_Flint says:

The Canterbury Tales is now a classic of medieval literature studied and analysed in universities all over the world, but do we know anything about its contemporary reception?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I think Chaucer would have found it very odd indeed that his texts are mainly read now in schools and universities (this is why it is GREAT that it has been the book group text here this month!). We know that some of his friends - such as chamber-knight-courtiers, poets, scribes - those kinds of people, read his work as he was writing it. The first time the Canterbury Tales is mentioned in a will, it is the will of a merchant tailor who also owned inns and was connected to brothels...In the generation after Chaucer's death he was also being cited by other poets a great deal, and starting to be treated as an authoritative figure. But in his own life time, his poetry was something to be read in groups and talked about, discussed - and something that he could keep changing too. It was alive.

Basile asks:

Chaucer is at times seen as having a pro-feminist voice specifically in the Wife of Bath’s Prologue and Tale. Can you explain if this is the case and with specific examples?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I’ve answered a bit on the Wife of Bath in a couple of answers below (answers to dwyer jones and timsde). So as not to repeat myself I’ll make a different point: Chaucer treats the Wife of Bath differently to any of his other pilgrims. She is referenced by other pilgrims, even by characters in other tales as if she is an authority, mixing up the layers of fiction. He also refers to her in a short poem (the Envoy to Bukton). So she gains a life outside her own text in a manner unique among the Canterbury pilgrims. He suggests that we need women to be authority figures, who get referred to by others. A brilliant critic, Carolyn Dinshaw, calls her Chaucer’s favourite character, and I agree. That’s not to say that I would precisely call him pro-feminist, as the term has quite specific connotations now - but I do think that the tale of rape and the education of the rapist is an extraordinary meditation on what it might be like to have your autonomy removed by an attacker - and this tale makes the old, ugly woman (not the handsome young knight) the ethical centre of the story.

samjordison has a question about Dr Turner’s new book:

Can’t resist asking if the title “Chaucer: A European Life” was at all inspired by recent *unfortunate* events?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I was writing this book for quite a while before June 2016!!

timsde also has a question about the Wife of Bath:

What would Chaucer’s first audiences/readers have made of her? I think we inevitably tend to read her here in the 21st century from some kind of post- feminist-Freudian perspective but what about in the late 14th century? Was Chaucer some kind of proto-feminist? How would his first audiences read the embedding of all kinds of anti-feminist tropes of the time (for example, all the Theofrastus stuff) in her prologue and tale; does she embody them or are in some way undermined? And what about the bit where she challenges the veracity of male authored anti-feminist “auctoritee” (the “who peyntede the leon? tel me who?” bit) - you can’t see past that, can you? She clearly has a point, whenever you’re listening/ reading(?), now or in the 14th century, no?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I need hours to answer this - so much to say. You are absolutely right in your reading of the complexities. Devil’s advocate: many of the aspects of the Wife of Bath that some of us today like / see as feminist (she stands up to men, she argues with misogynist clerics, she enjoys her own sexuality) were antifeminist stereotypes in the Middle Ages i.e. examples of why women need to be kept down and certainly not allowed to read books. She is based on some dreadful stereotypes from other texts - not only Jerome’s rant against women and sex but also more recent figures such as La Vielle from the Romance of the Rose. On the other hand - Chaucer makes her far more than the sum of her parts, and gives her life and energy. He also mixes up his sources - the bit that you mention (who peyntede the leon?) comes from a fable, and emphasises the idea that men have written all the stories, that the canon is authored by men so of course it says terrible things about women. She is herself trapped within that - and makes a plea for women to be allowed to tell their own stories, which resonates in any century…

'The Wife of Bath embodies many anti-feminist stereotypes. But she also tells us that women need to be able to tell their own stories'

DwyerJones says:

In the Wife of Bath’s Tale, the issue of what women want is raised, with the answer being “auctoritee” (authority). When I read Chaucer’s tales in college, there were lively discussions as to whether Chaucer was making a truly pioneering feminist point, or was mocking the idea of women being capable of managing their affairs without being under a man’s direction. What is your opinion?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

I would go more on the ‘feminist’ reading here, though with lots of caveats! This is a huge and really interesting issue. Here’s one response: there are other versions of the Wife of Bath’s Tale (man commits crime, is sentenced, has to find out what women want, hag tells him, he is saved by the answer, he has to marry the hag, he gives her authority, she becomes young and beautiful.). In Chaucer’s version, the crime committed by the knight is rape. And the knight is unambiguously guilty. In ALL the other versions, the crime is different (accidental killing, a land dispute) and the perpetrator is less culpable. So in this story about what women want - female desire - Chaucer inserts a man who does not care at all about female desire. And there is a great moment when the knight, realising he has to marry the ‘loathly lady’ says ‘take all my goods and let my body go.’ he realises a small part of what it might be like not to be able to control the destiny of his own body. His punishment - finding out what women want - fits his crime, and privileges the importance of thinking about women as human beings, not objects. In his own life, Chaucer knew plenty of strong women who were perfectly capable of managing their affairs - ran businesses, had jobs, owned property etc. That isn’t to say that the Wife of Bath is a straightforward character of course - she embodies many ANTI-feminist stereotypes. But she also tells us that women need to be able to tell their own stories.

hemingway62 says:

This may appear as a silly question, but how did Chaucer actually write? Did he use a quill pen, a pointed stick, a nib device, or something else? Also, what was the ink composed of, and what did he write on - parchment, some type of paper material or other? Were the materials expensive or hard to come by. Did he do many drafts (could he afford to)? And finally, what was his audience? Who was he writing for?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Not silly at all! He probably wrote with a stylus on a wax tablet, or perhaps with pen and ink on parchment, and then took his draft to a scribe to be written up. Paper was coming into England in the later fourteenth century (from Italy) but parchment was more common. Not hard to come by in London; not cheap but ok for someone of Chaucer’s level. And wax tablets could be re-used. He also writes about scraping away at scribal mistakes. We don’t know the extent of his drafts, but he certainly made changes - e.g. the Shipman’s tale was originally the Wife of Bath’s. And he was writing mainly for people of his kind of level - minor courtiers, chamber-knights, merchants, fellow writers - though there are also some outliers both higher and lower in status.

'Chaucer uses Boccaccio’s writing more than any other source - though he never mentions him'

And Ongley has a follow-up:

Second question if I may, considering your forthcoming book is about Chaucer’s European Life, is The Canterbury Tales really just a remake of Il Decamerone for a British audience?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Really important question. Chaucer uses Boccaccio’s writing more than any other source - though he never mentions him. He uses the Filostrato and the Teseida very directly; the Decameron less directly, though I’m sure that it was a crucial model. The tales are quite different though - not many of Chaucer’s have links to Decameron tales. And there are fascinating structural differences - Chaucer replaces Boccaccio’s ‘perfect’ 100 tales with his open-ended, seemingly unfinished, energetic, chaotic text, in which the characters themselves seem to take over the ordering. And, most importantly, Chaucer replaces Boccaccio’s group of related, attractive, high-class tellers with his motley crew - making the crucial statement that people of different social levels have the right to tell stories and to be heard.

Ongley asks:

Thanks for being here Dr Turner. Assuming you have seen it, would you say Pasolini captured the spirit of Chaucer in his adaption of The Canterbury Tales?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

It is my pleasure! Re: Pasolini - I’m not a big fan. I think Pasolini emphasises one specific aspect of Chaucer - the idea of bawdy Chaucer, so he focuses on fabliaux tales, sex, bodies - and adds in extra graphic scenes, so that he skews the impression of what the tales are like. While Chaucer does of course write about the body, he writes about a whole range of things, and it is the mix of different kinds of tales that is at the heart of Chaucer’s art. Pasolini doesn’t get that across, in my view!

'When we read literature, a fundamental part of the experience is the tension between the way that it seems to speak to us, and the fact that we need to make imaginative leaps'

Our very own samjordison asks:

To start, one thing I’ve been wondering is how much affinity we can feel with Chaucer? Sometimes it feels like he’s really talking directly to us and shares - for instance - a very similar sense of humour. Or sense of fair play when it comes to corruption and selling indulgences and similar... But at other times, he (or his characters) feel very alien. The anti-semitism in the Prioress’s story, and the religious thinking that inspires it, feel unreachably distant...

So how do we approach Chaucer? As someone who comes from an entirely different world? Or someone we’d like to meet in an alehouse... Or something in between?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

When Dryden first read Chaucer he said that he felt he had a soul congenial to his own - and that is exactly how generations of readers have thought about Chaucer. Precisely because he NEVER lets you know what he really thinks, you can find anything you want to in him - people have been convinced that he is orthodox / heretical, a feminist / an anti-feminist, a radical / a conservative - you name it! I think when we read literature, especially from the past, a fundamental part of the experience is the tension between the way that it seems to speak to us, to be relevant across time, and the fact that we need to make imaginative leaps to try to understand a different cultural context. And if we try to keep both those things in mind, we have a richer experience. It isn't an entirely different world - but it isn't the same world either, and people and literature aren't exactly the same across time.

ChronicExpat asks:

Hello, Dr Turner. The Prioress’s Tale intrigues me, but it is (obviously) one of those pieces of literature which contemporary readers find disturbing on account of its anti-Semitism. How would you advise contemporary readers to approach it? (or contemporary lecturers to present it?)

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Great and important question. I would say you have to approach all the Canterbury Tales as being voiced by someone - not as reflecting an authoritative viewpoint. My own view is that Chaucer goes out of his way to emphasise the Prioress’s hypocrisy (in her begging for mercy at the end of a tale that has utterly refused mercy and has espoused revenge), and to stress that it is not him speaking - there’s a fascinating moment when he inserts a ‘quod she’ in a way very unusual in the Tales. Many aspects of the Prioress and her tale expose her brand of sentimental religion as not only inadequate but brutal.

And jackreader has another:

In this project, was he drawing on an existing tradition or breaking new ground?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

In answer to your second question, both. He draws on a huge amount of existing traditions and texts. But he was also an extraordinary pioneer: no one had written texts in the style of the courtly French dit amoureux in English before; he developed the ten-syllable poetic line; he showed that English could be used for an extraordinary range of genres. A good example of the balance between tradition and new ground is that, while others such as Boccaccio had written ‘tale collections’ (i.e. it wasn’t Chaucer’s idea), Chaucer invented the idea of having people of all different social classes telling the tales.

'Sometimes he makes jokes relating to texts that no-one in England except him had read – he was partly writing for his own delight'

jackreader asks:

What were Chaucer’s motives, as near as we can tell - was he out to amuse, shock, entertain, make money?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Such a good question! He wasn’t out to make money. Across time, many people have thought of the purpose of literature as to teach and to delight. It is a good definition, but I’ll add some nuance: I don’t think Chaucer ever wanted to teach one thing, to get across a specific message. People might learn, but everyone would learn something different. I’m sure he did want to delight, though - to get people thinking. And I think he enjoyed complexity - playing with words, ideas, and genres. Sometimes he is making jokes so obscure, relating to texts that no-one in England except him had read, that it seems clear that in part he was writing for his own delight in it.

'As far as we know, he was never paid a penny for his writing'

palfreyman asks:

Thank you for joining us Dr Turner. My question is about Chaucer’s motivation. He already had a reasonably remunerative government job, and unlike Shakespeare, did not live in a society where writing could be a well-paid profession. So why would he undertake something as large as The Canterbury Tales at all?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

You are very welcome! It is fascinating isn’t it - he did his day job and then went home and wrote these extraordinary works. We see this in every generation - there are some people that must write, however un-lucrative or un-rewarded. Some don’t even want readers, but they feel they have to write. As far as we know, he was never paid a penny for his writing, so I think he must have been driven from within to write - he must have loved it. And of course he circulated it to friends, discussed it, achieved a certain amount of fame, became somewhat known by international poets - so that might have mattered to him too. But mainly I think he could not NOT write - it was the core of who he was.

alexwent asks:

As I understand it, Chaucer’s comparatively wide experience of mainland Europe had more to do with trade and treaties than it did with military action. But how much, if anything, do we know of public opinion from that period? Was England considered an isolated backwater or an essential part of ‘the main’?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Yes, Chaucer mainly travelled around Europe to negotiate trade treaties and marriage alliances - talking rather than fighting was his forte (although he did fight as a teenager in 1359 and was taken prisoner by the French and ransomed by Edward III). England was a relative backwater - not just on the edge of Europe, but on the edge of global trade networks. It wasn’t isolated though, but very much connected precisely through those trade networks that brought, for instance, the spices of Indonesia to London. And there was an international court culture, such that the same, mainly French and Latin texts, were read in the great households of many European countries. At this time, England still ruled parts of France, and royal families intermarried a lot, and every educated person was multilingual.

Malunkey starts us off:

Modern readers are very comfortable, I think, with the idea of an unfinished work with internal inconsistencies and an uncertain reading order for the segments. This rough-and-ready nature fits with our conception of Chaucer as a champion of the vernacular and as an undogmatic mouthpiece for unruly voices. Do you think, if he had had time to finish and order the work properly, that there might have been some overarching themes and structures that would have enhanced the book and changed our experience of it in substantial ways? Or do you think that the work is open-ended and boisterously ungovernable by its nature?

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Great question. Chaucer is the master of the un-ending! Quite a few of his other poems too are unfinished, and I think he found the idea of ending (with the connotations of completion and fixity) really difficult. The programme that Harry Bailly sets out - four tales each - is extremely ambitious. I don’t think Chaucer ever intended to do that. In terms of ordering the text- the order that we can be sure of is that, in the Miller’s Prologue, he foregrounds the principle of disorder, of opposing the idea of telling tales according to hierarchy. After that, the Tales take on their own energy, and I do think that that unruliness and open-ended-ness is crucial to the aesthetics and meanings of the text.

And we're live!

A big thank you to Dr Marion Turner for joining us today. Do keep posting questions while we have her.

User avatar for drmarionturner Guardian contributor

Hi everyone, thanks so much for all the questions so far! I'm delighted to here for the web chat and will try and get through as many questions as possible. And keep them coming. Here we go!

Join us for a webchat with Chaucer expert Dr Marion Turner on 28 September

I’m delighted to say that Dr Marion Turner will join us to talk about Geoffrey Chaucer and the Canterbury Tales on Friday 28 September at 1pm BST.

Dr Turner is an associate professor at Jesus College, Oxford – and an expert on Chaucer and late medieval literature. Which makes this a fantastic opportunity to find out more about this remarkable poet and a world that can seem bafflingly alien to our own. Dr Turner is the ideal person to ask if you want to know more about Chaucer’s achievements, why he chose to write in English rather than French or Latin, or how his books were first produced, who exactly read them and how they were distributed. She could explain why he came to use pentameters. Or why all the farting. Or anything else from six centuries of joy and controversy.

On the subject of controversy, meanwhile, Dr Turner is the author of Chaucerian Conflict, a book that argues that Chaucer isn’t quite as cheerful, congenial and optimistic as is often supposed and that his poetry “presents a vision of a society that is inevitably divided and destructive”. Maybe that explains why we still feel so much connection to him?

On that note, Dr Turner’s next book could be even more timely. Chaucer: A European Life will be published by Princeton University Press in April 2019. As the title suggests, it’s a major new biography, setting Chaucer in international contexts, and exploring the places he knew about. Sounds like ideal reading for all citizens of the world. If you ask the right questions, we might even get a preview ...

Dr Turner will be answering questions from 1pm on Friday - but do feel free to get yours in early.

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